#46582: "ELO adaptation to the number of players is screwed badly"
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# | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Detalus apibūdinimas
• Jei ekrane matote kokį nors klaidos pranešimą, įklijuokite jį čia.
n/a• Prašome paaiškinti, ką norėjote padaryti, ką padarėte ir kas atsitiko
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Prašome nukopijuoti / įklijuoti tekstą, rodomą anglų kalba, o ne savo kalba. Jei turite klaidos nuotrauką (rekomenduojama padaryti), galite panaudoti Imgur.com bei nuotrauką įkelti bei čia įklijuoti nuorodą.
n/a• Ar šis tekstas yra translation system? Jei taip, ar jis buvo išverstas daugiau nei 24 valandas?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Prašome paaiškinti siūlomą pakeitimą tiksliai ir glaustai, kad būtų kuo lengviau suprasti, ką jūs siūlote.
n/a• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Kas buvo pavaizduota ekrane, tave užblokavus (juodas ekranas? Nepilna žaidimo sąsaja? Klaidos pranešimas?)
n/a• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Į kurias taisykles neatsižvelgiama BGA žaidimo versijoje
n/a• Ar taisyklių pažeidimas matomas žaidimo atkartojime? Jeigu taip, kuris veiksmo numeris?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Kurį žaidimo veiksmą norėjai atlikti?
n/a• Ką reikia padaryti, kad iššauktum šį žaidimo veiksmą?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Kas įvyko kai bandei tai padaryti (klaidos pranešimas, žaidimo būsenos pranešimas, ...)?
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Kuriuo žaidimo metu problema atsirado (koks buvo tuometinis žaidimo nurodymas)?
n/a• Kas įvyko kai bandei atlikti žaidimo veiksmą (klaidos pranešimas, žaidimo būsenos pranešimas, ...)?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Aprašykite rodomą problemą. Jei turite klaidos nuotrauką (rekomenduojama padaryti), galite panaudoti Imgur.com bei nuotrauką įkelti bei čia įklijuoti nuorodą.
n/a• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Prašome nukopijuoti / įklijuoti tekstą, rodomą anglų kalba, o ne savo kalba. Jei turite klaidos nuotrauką (rekomenduojama padaryti), galite panaudoti Imgur.com bei nuotrauką įkelti bei čia įklijuoti nuorodą.
n/a• Ar šis tekstas yra translation system? Jei taip, ar jis buvo išverstas daugiau nei 24 valandas?
For instance:
boardgamearena.com/table?table=192563240
Hover the mouse over the 1st and and 4th player scores, do the math.
4 players games for downforce, if you do the sum, the ELO gains for the 1st player are multiplied in a hidden manner by 0.75
But the delta for the 2nd and 3rd players are not multiplied and the losses for the 4th player are not multiplied either.
To be 100% clear, this has nothing to do with the K factor. The problem isn't that the sum is not 0, I'm fully aware that this is normal. The problem is how the extra player count adapter is handled AND that it is not even shown or explained.
It is just plain wrong in the example above, as there can be any reason why the first player would have a 0.75 factor but the last player wouldn't.
--------------
But it is also wrong more generally speaking.
For instance, in a 6th player Race for the galaxy game, the player number factor is balanced I think (same for 1st and last player, if I remember correctly) but that still isn't ok. It should really be the same for all players. As it is, it is a big ELO tax on higher ranked players playing with lower ranked people which is not a good thing in terms of website dynamics; you do not want to discourage high ranked players from playing with lower ranked players.
As a 500+ player in a 6 players RFTG against average players, you gain like 4 ELO when winning (a 6 players game) and lose like 12 for being second. That is NOT normal and this because the ELO score for the first player is much much more reduced than the score for the second player.
---------------------
My solution:
1) The hidden players# factor should not be hidden and be DISPLAYED in the ELO change summary.
2) The hidden players# factor should be the same for everyone in the game regardless of their final position in the game.
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
• Prašome paaiškinti siūlomą pakeitimą tiksliai ir glaustai, kad būtų kuo lengviau suprasti, ką jūs siūlote.
n/a• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Google Chrome v91
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- Ar problemos atsirado keletą kartų? Kiekvieną kartą? Atsitiktiniu metu?
- Jei turite klaidos nuotrauką (rekomenduojama padaryti), galite panaudoti Imgur.com bei nuotrauką įkelti bei čia įklijuoti nuorodą.