#108927: "Make standard (merciless) scoring method optional"
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Detalus apibūdinimas
• Jei ekrane matote kokį nors klaidos pranešimą, įklijuokite jį čia.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Prašome paaiškinti, ką norėjote padaryti, ką padarėte ir kas atsitiko
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Prašome nukopijuoti / įklijuoti tekstą, rodomą anglų kalba, o ne savo kalba. Jei turite klaidos nuotrauką (rekomenduojama padaryti), galite panaudoti Imgur.com bei nuotrauką įkelti bei čia įklijuoti nuorodą.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Ar šis tekstas yra translation system? Jei taip, ar jis buvo išverstas daugiau nei 24 valandas?
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Prašome paaiškinti siūlomą pakeitimą tiksliai ir glaustai, kad būtų kuo lengviau suprasti, ką jūs siūlote.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Kas buvo pavaizduota ekrane, tave užblokavus (juodas ekranas? Nepilna žaidimo sąsaja? Klaidos pranešimas?)
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Į kurias taisykles neatsižvelgiama BGA žaidimo versijoje
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Ar taisyklių pažeidimas matomas žaidimo atkartojime? Jeigu taip, kuris veiksmo numeris?
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Kurį žaidimo veiksmą norėjai atlikti?
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Ką reikia padaryti, kad iššauktum šį žaidimo veiksmą?
• Kas įvyko kai bandei tai padaryti (klaidos pranešimas, žaidimo būsenos pranešimas, ...)?
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Kuriuo žaidimo metu problema atsirado (koks buvo tuometinis žaidimo nurodymas)?
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kas įvyko kai bandei atlikti žaidimo veiksmą (klaidos pranešimas, žaidimo būsenos pranešimas, ...)?
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Aprašykite rodomą problemą. Jei turite klaidos nuotrauką (rekomenduojama padaryti), galite panaudoti Imgur.com bei nuotrauką įkelti bei čia įklijuoti nuorodą.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Prašome nukopijuoti / įklijuoti tekstą, rodomą anglų kalba, o ne savo kalba. Jei turite klaidos nuotrauką (rekomenduojama padaryti), galite panaudoti Imgur.com bei nuotrauką įkelti bei čia įklijuoti nuorodą.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Ar šis tekstas yra translation system? Jei taip, ar jis buvo išverstas daugiau nei 24 valandas?
• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
• Prašome paaiškinti siūlomą pakeitimą tiksliai ir glaustai, kad būtų kuo lengviau suprasti, ką jūs siūlote.
In a reply to one of my bug reports, you told me that the new, "merciful" scoring scheme was implemented to help weak players. I thought about it, and I would like to offer you a rebuttal.
1) Hoola is, at best, 50% strategy and 50% luck. So, with a couple of lucky hands (for example one or two other players with no melds, or a Hoola or a blast), even a player which has zero points can, given enough time, manage to win the game in the end. Of course, if you have zero points in turn 7 out of 8, it's still quite improbable, but what happened in my game, the game stopped at turn 3 out of 8, so the last player still had 5 turns to make it happen. Why would you want to prevent them to attempt an heroic comeback?
2) The new scoring is not merciful to the last player, in fact it's merciless to the second player. If you are in second position, and you want to win, now you have to win more points than the first ranked player, but also make sure that you don't win too many points from the last ranked player, otherwise you might trigger the game end before you catch up with player #1. So that makes the game very difficult. It's even worse if you are player #3 in 4-players game, or player #4 in a 5-players game. You are never given an even chance to win. The only beneficiary of the new rule is the first ranked player, who can build a lead in 2-3 rounds, and then hope to kill off the last player to trigger the game end.
3) Where was it written that Hoola is supposed to be merciful? :)
Hoola is a nasty little game that punishes you at every opportunity: if you are not careful, you turn can be stolen, or you give away a useful card and have to pay for everybody's losses. Its mercilessness is what makes this game brilliant and fun! The new rules undercut this nastiness and make the game a little worse.
Thanks to you, I have learned about this game, that I am now playing in real life with family and friends. We play using the merciless rules, and I never found anyone (including my 10-years-old niece) complaining about going below zero. In fact, you can joke about the temperature being low on their side of the table :)
In conclusion, if you want to keep the merciful scoring for new users, please do. But please, also make an option for Hoola lovers to be able to play using the old merciless rules!
Thank you,
a Hoola lover• Kokia tavo naršyklė?
Mozilla v5
Raportų istorija
In the game above, in round 2, I had 2 cards left and stopped the round. Because I was undercut and my score became negative, the game ended. I went from a tie for 2nd to losing the game immediately. -40 points is not a large deficit to overcome in Hoola and a player can climb back up the leaderboard.
I've played Hoola a lot before this new rule was implemented. Previously a player was incentivized to stop a round early, even with the existing risk of being undercut. After implementation of the new rule, there is a high risk of losing without a chance for a comeback. I may not risk stopping a round for fear of an early game end. Stopping early was a strategic choice and the fundamentals of that decision have changed.
Please reconsider this rule change.
Thank you,
another Hoola lover
I borrowed the English term from other games with a similar rule (to avoid using gambling words).
This rule is implemented to support short length 2/3 player games which consititute >90% of all BGA Hoola games.
In this setting, the comeback is practically impossible when the last player has already lost >200 points and the leader plays defensively.
However, I admit the initial setting of 200 points didn't consider games with more players/more multipliers/longer game length option, so I opted to adjust the initial points instead.
From now on, new games will start with more points.
For example, a 4 players/8 rounds/Battle Hoola rule set game will start with 1600 points, instead of 200.
I think this is a good compromise.
Happy new year!
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